EVANA Interview: Chief Rabbi David Rosen:

'...I had to join in on spot checks on the slaughterers in the abattoir and was sickened by the sight of the slaughter...'

February 2008

On behalf of EVANA, Herma Caelen talks to Chief Rabbi David Rosen, KCSG, International President of Religions for Peace and Honorary President of the International Jewish Vegetarian Society.


Herma Caelen: Rabbi Rosen, you have endorsed the Open Letter to the President of the European Parliament *)demanding that 'The pressing problem of meat must not be excluded from future debates' about climate change. In the package of climate strategies, presented by the President of the European Commission, the dramatic impact of the meat industry has been absolutely ignored. How is the situation in Israel? Are decision makers more inclined to look at all the aspects, without excluding those which may be unpopular?

Rabbi David Rosen: To begin with I must confess that I am traveling three quarters of the time and therefore cannot speak most authoritatively about what is going on in Israel. However many crucial issues are pushed aside in Israel as a result of immediate "life and death" issues. In other words the (shortsighted) attitude often is - "we have to deal with immediate challenges to our survival and security; broader and more long range issues will have to wait." Moreover Israeli governments are very similar to their Italian counterparts. They are always made up of coalitions and thus the political leaders are overwhelmingly caught up in political horse-trading and maneuvering for their own political survival. Accordingly, not only is the ability for civic advocacy groups to impact upon government decisions very limited, but such coalition governments are a recipe for cautious rather than courageous behaviour.


EVANA: Even the FAO acknowledges the fact that the environment suffers enormously from animal husbandry. Since your region of the world is already confronted with droughts and the production of meat requires enormous quantities of water, the future may become even more difficult in the context of global warming. Has Israel already special measures in place to pro-actively deal with the problem?

Answer: Quite honestly I don't know. I do know that serious consideration is being given to finding alternative and additional ways of providing for our regional water needs. However, my impression is that there is little or no consciousness of the consequences of animal husbandry in this regard; and if there is, then there is still little desire to take on the industry or people's life styles.


EVANA: FAO expects world meat consumption to double by 2050. Considering the ecological drama we are already experiencing today - what is your theory about the future of our planet?

Answer: Despite my profound concern, I am not an expert in this area. However, as has been noted, usually "peoples behave wisely when they have exhausted all the other alternatives"! Inexorably, the stage will come when the crisis will force society to behave more responsibly.


EVANA: Apart from the ecologic aspect, is the Jewish community in general addressing the many moral issues related to animal-based diets? Do you see general interest to put a consideration of vegetarianism on future agendas?

Answer: One cannot really talk about "THE Jewish Community". However, there are very positive signs in some Jewish communities - especially in the United States - that these issues are being taken seriously. In the end though, economic factors are more persuasive. If governments can be appropriately sensitized to the issues, then incremental taxation and the provision of alternatives will prove more effective.


EVANA: Professor Richard Schwartz, the President of Jewish Vegetarians of North America, wrote a fictional dialogue between a Jewish vegetarian activist and a Rabbi **), which gives readers the impression that most Jewish spiritual leaders are not vegetarians like you. Is your lifestyle an exception?

Answer: Unfortunately, only a small minority of rabbis is vegetarian, but with each passing day it is becoming less exceptional. Whereas thirty years ago my wife and I were considered eccentric and even felt the need to explain ourselves to dinner guests, today not only is vegetarianism increasingly seen as a "normal" and a desirable lifestyle, but our "carnivorous" guests often apologize for the fact that they are not vegetarian!


EVANA: How should people committed to Jewish teachings respond to the fact that the production and consumption of meat may be compromising moral demands treating animals with compassion, preserving human health, protecting the environment, conserving natural resources, helping hungry people, pursuing peace, etc.?

Answer: By changing their lifestyle so that their diet is in consonance with these Jewish values that you have specified.


EVANA: Even though it can be stated with some certainty that most vegetarians are living in India, it is difficult to get hard facts about the “V”-situation in other countries. However, it seems that the second largest percentage of vegetarians can be found in Israel. What is the reason for so many of your citizens to shun meat?

Answer: I didn't know this and it makes me very happy to hear it. I suppose that to some degree the demands of Jewish religious practice that prohibit meat consumption with dairy foods and require a long waiting time after the former before consuming the latter, may be a factor. Perhaps the fact that kosher meat tends to be more expensive might be another factor. Also fruits and vegetables are so good in Israel that perhaps there is less of a need for meat consumption. Finally, maybe the very fact that hundreds of thousands of young Israelis visit India and are exposed to a vegetarian culture and lifestyle might also have its effect.


EVANA: Since vegetarians are rocking the meat-boat, they are not best liked, often even ridiculed. Do those not eating meat enjoy more respect in Israel?

Answer: I have not come across any ridicule of vegetarians in Israel. On the contrary, my experience is that it is a widely respected lifestyle choice and the reason that there are not more vegetarians is more to do with a dietary dependence on meat consumption rather than a cognitive approval of such.


EVANA: In your work you certainly cooperate with people in many different countries and of many faiths. Have you seen a change in attitude towards vegetarianism recently?

Answer: Yes, I see an exponential growth of vegetarianism in the world today.


EVANA: Judging from your international experiences: How does Israel compare to other countries in terms of vegetarian activism, ease of leading a vegetarian lifestyle, etc.?

Answer: As I indicated above, I am happily surprised to learn that there is a very high percentage of vegetarians in Israel. However I am very aware that it is very easy to be a vegetarian in Israel - especially if one is a lacto-ovo vegetarian (moreover there are plenty of free range and organic products available.) Due to the requirement in Jewish law of separating meat and dairy products, there is a disproportionate plethora of non-meat restaurants in Israel. Also as I mentioned above, the choice variety and quality of fruits and vegetables in Israel is excellent and thus it is particularly easy to be a vegetarian in Israel.


EVANA: Do you have a recommendation for vegetarians everywhere of how to best promote our compassionate way of life?

Answer: To show compassion to human carnivores as well. They are victims of our human past and contemporary habits and ignorance. If we treat them with compassion and encourage them to move in our direction gradually (rather than make demands on them that they may perceive as extreme) we will have more effect. In addition, of course, we must make sure that we ourselves are good advertisements, not only by the way we behave, but also in our own health, vitality and energy, so that a vegetarian lifestyle is perceived as the desirable choice in every respect.


EVANA: We all know the drama of being a helpless witness to cruelty. Certainly many enlightened people have been horrified about the evils involved in the slave trade. Today hundreds of millions of vegetarians all over the world hurt deeply when watching the bloodbath taking place in the slaughterhouses as a matter of normal and almost uncontested routine. Do you see any reason for hope?

Answer: Absolutely, what we have to battle with is the technological detachment that enables people to disassociate what is on their plate with the cruelty that enabled it to get there. However, technology through the media also exposes people to realities that they might not normally encounter. Such knowledge and exposure of the cruelties in the treatment and slaughter of livestock appears to be growing and increases awareness of the moral dilemmas involved.


EVANA: Please allow us one personal question: Was there a special event that led you to become a vegetarian? When and how did it happen?

Answer: Actually, like many people, even as a child I would say that I think it is the right thing to be vegetarian (and I admired those who were) but that I liked the taste of meat too much to give it up. A number of things combined made my wife and I take the decision to become vegetarian more than thirty years ago. There were health considerations and a greater awareness of the cruelties involved in animal farming, but also the fact that as a judge on the rabbinic court, I had to join in on spot checks on the slaughterers in the abattoir and was sickened by the sight of the slaughter. That posed a moral question - how can one partake of that which comes from actions that one would NEVER want to do oneself nor encourage anyone else to do. All that led to our decision. I must confess that I suffered from "withdrawal symptoms” for about three months, but thereafter it was out of my system for good.


EVANA: What is your recommendation for all those wanting to work for a better world?

Answer: Not to be daunted by the challenge and not to be deterred by cynics. Above all to know that goodness towards others and our world is goodness to ourselves and is the path towards happiness and fulfillment for others and ourselves.


EVANA: Rabbi Rosen, we thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us. We wish you and your important work much continued national and international success.


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Chief Rabbi David Rosen, KCSG,
International President, Religions for Peace;
Honorary President, The International Jewish Vegetarian Society
tel:+972-2-6255281 fax:+972-2-6256527
mailto:rosend@ajc.org

Source: Chief Rabbi David Rosen, KCSG
Author: EVANA

Link: *) Open Letter to the President of the European Parliament
Link: **) A Dialogue Between a Jewish Vegetarian Activist and a Rabbi
Link: JVNA Newsletter Feb 2010: Rabbi David Rosen Honored (Commander of the British Empire (CBE) in the International category, 'for services to interfaith relations both in the Middle East and between the UK and Israel')
Link: Russian translation of the interview